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 "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH.

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D
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PostSubject: Re: "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH.   "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 04, 2009 1:36 am

Andre, now I'm curious because you've so far actually explained things nicely - not like the people who pound on my door at 7 AM.

Why is that Whitnesses don't celebrate birthday and certain holidays?

I never quite understood that.
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PostSubject: Re: "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH.   "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 04, 2009 1:39 am

This is really interesting stuff, I can't believe I've always been so ignorant about Witnesses. Nobody I knew ever really spoke/knew about it.

Is the resurrestion, like, a continious cycle or does it stop at one point?

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PostSubject: Re: "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH.   "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 04, 2009 1:48 am

Resurrection for the Earthly part of God's Kingdom comes after Armageddon. We speculate (meaning no direct Biblical evidence) that the Earthly resurrection will not happen in one day but for a long period of time. For the Heavenly, resurrection is instantaneous. Once they die faithful, they are instantly resurrected as spirits in heaven "in the twinkling of an eye."

Oh, I forgot to mention. When you die as a Heavenly you are granted immortality which is why God chooses those who become Heavenly using his foreknowledge (to know who's going to be faithful).
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PostSubject: Re: "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH.   "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 04, 2009 1:54 am

You are explaining things really well ^,^

See, I've always had a negative view of Witnesses, because I had a school friend who was raised as one... But when she decided she wanted to make her own choices about her beliefs, they made things very difficult for her. And that bugged me.

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PostSubject: Re: "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH.   "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 04, 2009 1:58 am

Yes, Andre, your explanations are lovely (as are the mathematical ones -to me, at least)

Aana, many families are like that when they have strong beliefs. Religious especially, but not only.

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PostSubject: Re: "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH.   "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 04, 2009 2:01 am

Oh, I know, I'm not completely pig-ignorant.

But seeing this girl- absolutely terrified about telling her mother she wanted to make her own decisions in life- really had a lasting effect on me.

I think it's most of the reason I'm not fond of children being raised to a religious standard.

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Hmm... my question was never answered. =/
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I'll get back to your question, PrincessJaded when I return from school. I'll try to rationalize what happened to your friend as well, Aana.
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Okiedokie, sounds like a plan.

And you can call me Diane, everyone else does! Very Happy
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Have a fab day!

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PostSubject: Re: "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH.   "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 04, 2009 9:20 am

I'm back. I'll start by answering Diane's question. This is a sensitive topic and I might end up stepping on a couple of toes but here goes: Basically, we Witnesses are very careful when it comes to celebrating occasions, making sure they are not based on pagan traditions. Birthdays are one example of that. (I don't know how not to put this bluntly, sorry).

You'll notice the Bible mentions only two birthdays, one held for the Pharaoh of Joseph's time and another for King Herod; in both occasions someone was beheaded (The cupbearer and John the Baptist respectively). Take a look at this and this.

Other celebrations have their own roots such as New Year's Celebrations, which was celebrated by multiple non-Christian/Jewish cultures (fireworks were supposed to ward off bad spirits come New Year in Chinese tradition). Halloween has for it's roots the Celtic festival of Samhin, the Celtic lord of death celebrated on November 1, the Celtic new year. (I checked The World Book Encyclopedia for this)

Although occasions like these have regressed from being (pagan) religious observances to simply times for merrymaking, Witnesses try to make sure to live strictly by Biblical, and not popular, standards.
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PostSubject: Re: "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH.   "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 04, 2009 9:42 am

See, I love that way you explained that.

My neighbors are Whitnesses and for Halloween we give out candy and dress-up. Their son told my aunt that his parents told him that Halloween was for the devil.

And I've had similiar experiences, when referring to Christmas, and birthdays, but I thank you for explaining it in what I can only hope is the correct way.

I guess people just see things different, even if they are in the same religion.
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PostSubject: Re: "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH.   "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 04, 2009 10:04 am

I'm glad you didn't find it insulting.

Well, I don't blame the kid's parents. How else could you make the child turn down candy when everyone's giving loads away other than scare him out of it? It's probably temporary, though. Just until he has enough discernment not to be swayed by sweets.

(lol'd at your avatar)
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PostSubject: Re: "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH.   "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 04, 2009 10:12 am

Hmm... idk, to me the devil is symbolic of evil, obviously, I just don't like the method of making a child believe that (candy = evil).

I mean are parents beliefs are instilled in us so I don't blame the little boy for what he said. I just think that there had to be a better way to make him understand.

(Thanks! My messenger one has been changed to him too! I'm serious, I'm gonna marry him! *swoons* lol)
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Yeah, telling a kid something like that is a bit extreme! And it's not even correct. >_<
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Hm, I thought the parents did Haloween=>evil instead. Like I said, they'll have to explain to the kid using the facts I presented when he grows up. Actually, if the kid's goes to meetings regularly and listens to the discussions, he'll find out for himself.

The fact that he clings on his parents' explanation shows that he doesn't have the attention span to listen when meetings are in session and thus the parents' alternative becomes more effective (in keeping him from being drawn to Halloween) than giving the child the two/three-paragraph explanation I presented.

Such a method is not really supported by our publications, though.
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PostSubject: Re: "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH.   "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 04, 2009 11:13 am

Double posting.. Okay miss Aana, your turn.

Serious sins by members of the congregation are dealt with the harshest of punishments: disfellowship. When one is disfellowed from the congregation, none of the Witnesses are allowed to talk to him/her (except for the elders, they visit once a year) because he/she will be considered spiritually dead. I know it sounds harsh but it keeps the congregation from mingling with the disfellowshipped, faiths preserved from being tainted by association. (especially when the disfellowed turns into an apostate)

Now, this all depends on what your friend was thinking. She's probably worried that if she tells her mom, the situation created could escalate to such a state. Thus, if she has close friends within the congregation, she will not even be able to talk to them should she get disfellowshipped (they won't even respond to "hello"). Of course, she may be thinking too much. Disfellowshipping is used primarily when a serious sin has been committed, like abortion, adultery and apostasy and the sinner doesn't truly regret what he/she has done.
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PostSubject: Re: "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH.   "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 04, 2009 11:25 am

...I still think it's wrong to force you're views on a child.

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As a parent, one does have a prerogative to do so. Unless, of course, he/she will be leading the child to harm.

Edit: To which post were you responding, Aana?
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To be honest, all of them.

I respect your opinion, and that your religion, and I'm sorry if anything I say steps on your toes. But this isn't aimed at you directly, it's just my personal belief when it comes to religion.

But I think it's wrong to bring up your child forcing your beliefs on them. It's grooming them into the system, not them choosing it based on life experience- and that seems wrong to me.

It's almost like the parents are scared to give them the freedom of they're own choice, they'll find something different. If they're so sure they're religion is the one true religion, then surely they have the confidence that even if they do let they're children explore the world for themselves, they'll still come back to they're religion.

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Step all you want, I don't mind.

Have you considered Witnesses aren't the only ones who do that? (tell me if I sound overly defensive here). Well, when one grows into an adult he/she is no longer bound by parental conventions and thus is free to choose his own path. Like my older brothers.

Edit: Parents do tend to be overprotective of their children, as if they have no idea of differentiating good from bad.


Last edited by Goggles on Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Because Aana did, too.)
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I don't think it's necessairly wrong for a child to grow up with religion in their lives. I'm Catholic so I was baptized, had communion, was confirmed, etc. However, as the child grows and he/she wants to change religion or even not believe in religion at all, the parents shouldn't make a federal case out of it. The parents can be upset but I think it's wrong for the parents to disown them over it. And that's for all religions.
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PostSubject: Re: "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH.   "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 04, 2009 12:00 pm

Goggles wrote:
Have you considered Witnesses aren't the only ones who do that? (tell me if I sound overly defensive here).

No, you don't sound overly defensive, but you do sound like you missed part of my post.

SugarSpiral wrote:
But this isn't aimed at you directly, it's just my personal belief when it comes to religion.

I guess I could've worded that better- "this isn't aimed at you're religion directly.... religion in general."

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Oh.....

*sweatdrop

I knew that...
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PostSubject: Re: "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH.   "Jesus Is My Lord And Saviour And I'm Not Afraid To Say It"... ARGH. - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 04, 2009 12:11 pm

Sorry!

I guess I should've made that part clearer!


Explaining my beliefs further, I think actually having a religion is great. I just think you need to find it by yourself- I'm not too fond on organized religion, because I feel that life is different for everyone and therefore everyones beliefs should relay directly to they're own experience.

Yes, I know that sounds hypocritical.



And to make myself even more confusing, when it comes to what happens to you after you die, it's my opinion that whatever you as a person believe, that's what will happen to you.



...Did that make any sense at all?

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