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PostSubject: Twilight   Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:10 pm

I assume most of you have heard of Twilight. For many of us little girls jumping around and squealing about how awesome it is are just plain unavoidable, as are the posters, and the shrines dedicated to the books in stores.

Now some of you may like Twilight, or even be fans. I'm not, I'm really, really, rah-heee-ly not. Nothing written here is done for the sole purpose of offending. So if you like Twilight, I invite you to read on and defend it.

Also, I have read the books (Well, more like ploughed through them, and I skipped some of the 4th one), so no saying I have no idea what I'm going on about Razz

WARNING, this is where the ranting starts. Harsh terms ahead
. And I mean HARSH.
(it's also hasn't had that much thought put into it, so it's not goign to be super sophisticated).

To me, Twilight reads like a badly written teenage girl's fantasy. Twilight was infact inspired by a dream Stephenie Meyer had, where she was lying in a meadow with her sparkly superman.
I have no problem with anyone writing down their fantasies, but turning it into a published work? No.

1. Bella
Let's just grab the character known as Bella shall we?
She's a self insert, not only for the author, but she made available as one for anyone reading. She's like a blank slate, anyone can just slide into her shoes. She has no particular dominating personnality traits, and the ones she has can be molded to fit the reader.
She calls herself plain and unremarkable, and keeps reminding us how she's nothing special. Yet when she arrives in Forks she finds it natural for everyone to pay attention to her and adores it. No matter how annoying she says it is, she does.
Bella is also described as intelligent and independant, even though none of her actions, decisions made (or lack thereof) show this. She's pretty happy just following Edward around for all eternity.
She looks down upon anyone who isn't part of the exclusive sparkly vampire circle. Her father is portrayed as an idiot, as is Mike and anyone who doesn't fit into her super perfect romance. I find this downright snobbish and demeaning, as in 'If you're not part of the pretty people, you fail at life and can never hope to be happy.' There's also the 'you must sacrifice your personality and opinions and be totally happy for me' thing going on.
Bella is described as being a bit of a misfit at her old school, someone one might label a "loser" if we want to get clique-y. Throughout the book we see her looking down on her classmates as if they were the biggest geeky losers in existence. This screams: 'OMG! I'm so not like you! I'm cool! I'm cool! Oh plz! I want to be one of the popular kids! Plz don't let me be associated to you!!"
And if you think about the Cullens could incarnate the "popular kids." What with the exclusive lunch table, not talking to any out their circle who isn't worthy etc.

It's things like this that make me think Bella's highschool life is the highschool life Stepenie Meyer dreamed about. Which would confirm what I said about Twilight being a way for her to live out her fantasies.

And Bella's flaws? Well, she's super clumsy, which makes guys race to help her like she's a damsel in distress! How is this a flaw, exactly? Oh, and she probably loves Edward too much, poor thing. And we musn't forget that she's soo plain and average, even though just about everything in the book makes you think she a super special gal, something she just can't help. These things, like, just happen to her! This puts her in the victim/passive, not something we want for a strong female lead -something she's described as. It also screams Cinderella complex (waiting for Mr. Prince Charming to come along, sweep the girl off her feet, solve everything, give her a happily ever after without her even needing to lift a finger). which I really don't think is a good message.

That's it for now, stay tuned for: 2. Bella & Edward's Romance!

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Last edited by nina-neko on Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:15 pm

...I love you.

I'll rant when I've got a ranting mood on!!

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:16 pm

Oh, I love you for this!!

This is SO true.

And might I add that sparkling vampires, in my opinion, has to be one of the lamest things ever?
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:48 pm

Defo! To me, Meyer's vampires really aren't vampires at all. I've heard them called 'sparklepires' somewhere Laughing

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PostSubject: a   Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:31 pm

2. Bella and Edward's "Romance"

To sum up the getting together stage (it's probably not to the exact time line, but whatevs):
Bella: "OMG! Pretty boy spotted!" Obsession, Obsession! Must find out moar!!
Edward: Totally Cold. Trying to distance self and make an even more coolier super cool Aura of Mystery!!
Bella: Still obsessed, still wanting to find out moar! Shut up people who give a shit about me! I'm trying to ogle pretty boy!
Edward: Stalkity Stalk. "Stay away from meh! I'm totally dangerous! ...Damn, you smell gud."
Bella: Throws away all common sense and reason. "You is pretty! I shall risk everything for you!" "You will be my sooper perfect BF and we shall be together for eva and eva!"

Now does that seem like something to base a relationship on? If you say yes, I'll be worried about you.
So then they hit it off, yipee. And they're so very, very, very much in love. Bella centers her life around Edward, ignoring anything and everything unrelated to him. She spends as much free time as she can with him, and less with her father and friends.
But wait! It's not all about Edward! Alice becomes her shiny new BFF! So now she can have the best girlfriend whithout leaving the sphere of the perfect vampire world AND Edward can totally keep an eye on her and be in control of her life at all times! Ugh.

Once they're in a relationship, everythig part of Bella's life becomes about Edward. So naturally when he leaves, she has nothing left. This bit is the infamous zombie state in New Moon.I absolutely hate this because there are already so many girls out there who are incapable of living without a boyfriend and who make their whole world about them. I fear this has only encouraged it. And when Edward decides to come back, Bella just jumps right back into her unhealthy love story. No wisdom whatsoever gained from her experience, except maybe that she loves Edward even more and she neva eva wants to be without him.

Now onto the abuse. Yes, abuse. Edward and Bella's relationship is an abusive one. The rare times where Bella expresses a desire to see people outside of the exclusive sparkle circle, Edward gets upset. I think it's in Eclipse, when she wants to see Jacob that he removes the engine from her car. Seriously? Control freak, much?

Then there's the Sex and Marriage thing. Bella wants sex, which is perfectly understandable. But she wants sex with Edward, when sex with Edward could, well, KILL her. I assume this comes across as a setback to most sane people and not just myself. But not to Bella, nope, she wants sex. So she pressures him into it, she brings it up as much as she can then tries to make him fel guilty and persuade him (If their genders where switched, I'm pretty sure someone would be calling: rapist!). Eventually Eddie gives in, but only if they get married. I personally don't think that highly of blackmail. Sure, he says it's so that she won't suffer from the sin of sex outside of mariage, but isn't turning her into a "monster" exposing her to sin?
And after they actually have sex, Bella's covered in bruises and thinks next to nothing of it, it's almost as if they aren't even there to her. Me thinks Meyer has not had teh rough sex b4, nopes.

Oh, and I recall seeing a poster for the Twilight move with something along the libnes of "A supernatural Romeo&Juliet." This made me laugh so badly. Simply because of those going: "OMG! just like Romeo&Juliet! It's epic true love!" Romeo and Juliet is most certainly not about true love, it's a tragedy that portrays the stupidity of youthful infatuation quite nicely. Razz

That's about all I can think of atm, these rants really aren't going to be structured or anything.
If you guys have stuff to add, please do! Very Happy

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Last edited by nina-neko on Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:38 pm

See what happens when I open my mouth... or type my words! lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:40 pm

Fair points through and through, Nina.

But what pissed me off the most about Twilight was... how every chapter in every book had to have a dramatic ending sentence that made about as much sense as a chocolate tea kettle.

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:47 pm

Did you ever read what Steven King said when he compared Stephenie Meyer(s)(?) to J.K. Rowling?

Quote :
According to Stephen, "Both Rowling and Meyer, they're speaking directly to young people... The real difference is that Jo Rowling is a terrific writer and Stephenie Meyer can't write worth a darn. She's not very good."
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:50 pm

...I guess that settles it, really...

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:06 pm

I have to post these two links:
http://stuffedhead.wordpress.com/critcom/twilight/
http://www.anti-shurtugal.com/wordpress/?page_id=51

My history with the books: Luckily, I had come across these sites before reading the books, so I wasn't turned into a rabid fangirl, as, knowing me, I could have. Some months ago, I read the first two books. I read them in greek, because I had seen in the reviews parts of the unbearably overloaded, purple prose, and one of the things getting lost in translation is, luckily, the pompuous prose. I still haven't read the two last books; I may read Eclipse if I get too much time in my hands, but I've decided not to read Breaking Dawn. I've also watched the movie.

The things I like about the series (I'll say them first, as they're few and I'll do away with them quickly): 1)They're catchy. Once you start reading, you can't put the book down (but still, you can't help rolling your eyes all the time as long as you're halfway decently intelligent). 2) Jacob is a real sweetheart in the first 1 1/2 books, although he becomes an ass, especially judging from Eclipse's summary. 3) The music score (not the soundtrack, safe for Decode and Supermassive Black Hole) of the movie rocks.

Now, the ranting: There's so much stuff that drives me up the wall that I don't know from what to start.
First of all, like Nina pointed out, Bella. She's just a black hole. It's very disturbing that Meyer has tried to make her a so-called "everygirl", in whose shoes anyone can step. The whole way in which Bella is illustrated could be used as a pro arguement for Brecht's Alienation Effect. All these fangirls who get influenced by Twilight are being completely brainwashed through their identifying with Bella. She's a completely weak character; still, if her weakness was criticised by the author, it would add points to the book. However, this is not a case. Bella's weakness is idealized. It implies that women should be weak, lusty creatures, whose life is centering around a man. I can't believe some mothers use Twilight to show to their daughters that they should wait. Do they have any common sense? And the whole thing with marriage annoys me. It's not the paper that matters. It's the real connection and interaction between the lovers, and, in order to achieve that, people need to be a tiiiny bit mature, which is the actual reason they should wait.
Which brings two points to my mind. First, the lust. In one of the parts that made me laugh as hell, Bella said that love and lust go together for her. Rolling Eyes It really made me want to bang my head on the wall. She repeats ALL the time that Edward is gorgeous and model-like and all that crap. When it comes to his personality, it is as if she tries not to think about it, and to focus her thought on his awesome looks. I can't see any love there. It's a sick mixture of lust and obsession. And again, if it was illustrated as such, it would improve the book. But Meyer can't help idealizing her self inser- err, heroine's feelings for the hero. If she doesn't present them as ideal, the world would turn into dust, ha!
Bella's insistense for sex probably demonstrates Meyer's repression by stereotypes, as most of them show the man wanting sex and the woman trying to maintain her virtue. Meyer could make something good out of the role reversal, but of course she doesn't.
Now, teh Eddie. Is this the idea of the perfect male an influential writer should put in her fan's heads? He's a creepy possessive stalker, for crying out loud! Mental illness is being presented as romantic! As for his appearance, it is as annoying as those anorexia-thin models in the magazines. The books are overloaded with descriptions of Edward's divine handsomeness, and that sets downright unrealistic standards in the girls' minds. Even if we assume he's the charming "bad boy", he's not bad enough, not charming enough and not flawed enough.

For anyone who's familiar with Madeleine L'Engle's "A Ring of Endless Light", I'm going to make a comparison.
In this book, a rather geeky girl, Vicky Austin, who is an author self-insert, falls for a rich, charming bad boy, Zachary Gray. Vicky is really a self-insert, but she stands as a character, she has flaws and she really doesn't quite fit in. Zachary is really the common charming bad boy... BUT. The author gives actual reasons for the mutual attraction, not just a stupid magic smell thing. And what's more, the guy is presented as dangerous and their relationship does come across as unhealthy.

The Twilight books are very controversial in the messages they imply, but many controversial writers write well. Meyer's omnipresent fault though is that she makes out of her ideas the worst she could. She's not even trying to be a good writer. Okay, not every writer wants to be a great name among classics, but if a writer decides to publish their work, they need to make it a little decent.
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PostSubject: a   Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:30 pm

Eleftheria, you rock! Very Happy
I especially love your paragraph on lust, you pinned that well.

There really are some interesting topics in the book, the whole sick obsession mistaken for romance, the alienation etc. Except that Meyer is portraying such things as true love, not making a critique.

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Last edited by nina-neko on Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo: pinned, not pined XD)
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:33 pm

Has anyone ever read the True Blood series, I know that's not what it's really called but the first book is?

Well that series came out before Meyer's "so-called dream." And amazingly enough there are some interesting parallels. Like mindreading, alternative blood resources, and a human falling for a vampir... stuff like that.

Kinda begs to ask the question... how original is Twilight anyway?
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:38 pm

There's actually a novel with practically the same storyline as Twilight. A young girl moves to a new town, meets creepy bad boy monster (might have been a vamp, might not, I can't remember), falls in love (well, love by teen standards), becomes obsessed and gradually becomes alienated from her friends and family. Except, unlike Twilight, the bad side of this is shown.

I wish I could remember the author and title, I think I bookmarked it, but that was on my laptop, which is being repaired.

So Twilight really isn't that original in any way.

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:51 pm

nina-neko wrote:
Eleftheria, you rock! Very Happy
I especially love your paragraph on lust, you pined that well.
Thanks Very Happy

PrincessJaded wrote:
Has anyone ever read the True Blood series, I know that's not what it's really called but the first book is?

Well that series came out before Meyer's "so-called dream." And amazingly enough there are some interesting parallels. Like mindreading, alternative blood resources, and a human falling for a vampir... stuff like that.

Kinda begs to ask the question... how original is Twilight anyway?

The book True Blood is based on is called "Sookie Stackhouse book series" or "The Southern Vampire Mysteries" (I didn't know it, I just looked it up on wiki Razz).

Twilight isn't original at all. It is overloaded with cliches and overused storylines. As for the dangerous romance thing, it has been presented in many other works, usually more succesfully. Twilight has such a huge fanbase because of its catchy-ness and because of the wish fulfillment element.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:52 pm

Timewitch wrote:
Do they have any common sense? And the whole thing with marriage annoys me. It's not the paper that matters. It's the real connection and interaction between the lovers, and, in order to achieve that, people need to be a tiiiny bit mature, which is the actual reason they should wait.

Eleftheria, you are my favourite person in the world.

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:54 pm

Thanks Very Happy When I form an opinion I don't change it easily, so I try to choose carefully which side I'm on Razz I've given that issue a lot of thought, and my opinion is what you read.

Uh, I guess I get lame when I answer compliments Embarassed
But anyways, the point of that comment was that Meyer is supposed to be writing about a radical issue, the vamp-human romance, but she writes about it in an annoyingly conservative way. And she's conservative without being moral.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:44 am

I LOVE this rant. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:31 pm

I have never read Twilight, and promised to myself I would never see the film.

So I'll just say it's shit.

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:05 pm

I read it, yeah, it's okay. Well written for a first-time author.

But other than that I want to shoot it and every copy of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:04 am

I was one of the ones who actually read the book WHEN IT CAME OUT. Before it got mass media attention and all that. Honestly, I thought the book was awesome then (three? four years ago?) because what pre-teen girl doesn't want to fantasize about some hot guy?

I certainly did.

I'm definitely not obsessed with the series, but I've kept up with it, and I've seen the movie... but I promise you all now, I am NOTHING like those rabid idiotic fangirls that live their lives by that book, and who wait impatiently for the day when their "Edward" will come. I've read better books, and the Twilight series seems almost... immature to me now. I would not consider it top-notch fiction - that's for sure.

But all in all, I liked the books. They kept me entertained, and my friends and I have had some good laughs over the books, so I don't regret reading the books or anything.

I just kind of wish they had been... better-written. -ish.



Sorry, I'm not very good at ranting...

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:10 am

I read an article about how a fangirl scratched her neck so that it bled and asked the actor of Edward Cullen (forgot his name) to lick/bite (I forget!) her neck or something.

GROSS!! The books are such a bad, bad influence on these girls.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:54 am

Yeah, I heard about that. and she was only 11...

This rant makes my life, I read the series a while ago, liked it for a bit, went to read it again and said, "What am I doing?"
And that was the end of that. I learned quickly. =)
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:50 pm

I started reading them with my boyfriend, to point out how crappy they were and piss of a girl. We got slightly addicted... Though there were parts we really hated. Like Bella. Jacob. The whole POINTLESSLY DRAMATIC ENDING SENTENCES.

The books were ok. The movie is FANTASTIC- look at it's comedic value!

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:15 pm

Haha, the movie was pretty funny. I loved it when Bella walked into the biology room and Edward looked like he was going to throw up... I loved that part because it showed how much Edward is a freaking drama queen and overreacts to EVERYTHING. It made my day Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight   Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:03 pm

I've heard about how fantastic the baseball scene in the movie and that made me a little curious. I just might watch it/read the book in its entirety (if I can bear it) one day!
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